"My rule of thumb is this: if you want to be my friend now, I don’t want to think twice if you’ll hide me in your attic if the shit ever really hits the fan."
Yeah - I have to say I am having a problem at this point with “who would hide me in their attics.” Would the Gay community ever go ‘back in the closet?’ I think they’d fight like hell to live their lives. So if things get bad, I’m not headed to anyone’s attic. I want the equivalent of a few regional ‘Warsaw ghettos’ and if I go down, it’s not being pulled out of some attic like a scared raccoon, but standing up for me and the Jewish civilization.
Very good advice. I too have a hard time being close to anyone who supports what happened on October 7 or makes excuses for it. That really is the proverbial “bridge too far” for me. You’re right though, I do not like to contemplate cutting people out of my life who were important to me, but on that issue, it’s they who made the choice. if they know, I’m very pro Israel and they’re not they should avoid the topic with me, but if they constantly are trying to debate with me, I said to myself, it’s not worth it. Being friends with someone who does not support Israel’s right to exist it is not the same as it say you are a Yankees fan and your friend is a Red Sox fan. You can laugh over the matter, but this is an existential crisis for the Jewish people.
Thank you Joel. You’re definitely not alone. I’ve received about 10 variations of this question when soliciting questions for this ‘Dear Golda’ column. The ones with couples who have kids together are the most sad, but also longstanding business partnerships that are now destroyed and obviously many friendships. I wouldn’t judge anyone for trying to maintain dialogue, but I’m certainly more in your camp with how I view it.
I’m on the couples camp that you mentioned, and it’s been painful, disorienting, without hyperbole — downright debilitating. And an extremely solitary experience. I wish there was a support group m.
Hey Paula, you’re not alone, I’m glad you found Maccabee Nation. I hope you can get through to the other side and find peace and happiness. You will, keep going!
same. my partner has issues with Zionism because he doesn’t understand it. i am maintaining open dialogue with him about it because he is willing to learn more. he recently told me that he doesn’t like Zionism because it often leads to “reactionary politics”. He is equating the current government of Israel to Zionism. i don’t know how else to explain it to him.
Lauren, try showing him the attacks happening against Jews all around the world right now. Israel is a place Jews are supposed to be safe, or at least to have the ability to defend themselves in our indigenous homeland.
If he doesn’t agree that the world is unsafe for Jews, ask him to strap on a skullcap and Megan David necklace and walk around any major city in America, Canada, or Western Europe. it will be a formative experience. Be prepared to endure verbal and physical assault, for the crime of being a Jew in the West.
I’ll just add Northern Europe to that geography (or I have no idea about other parts of Scandinavia/northern Europe but for Denmark it certainly applies
I know, I don’t know why he cannot see it. Thankfully, he also hates Hamas and thinks the protesters are ignorant, but I think he just doesn’t understand how dangerous they are.
You really need to just say it. “Jew hatred” so much more visceral than the overly intellectual anti semitism anti Zionism it really is just garden variety Jew hatred let’s face it.
As a born and raised proud Catholic I take person umbrage with your ignorant claim all?)
Please clarify and provide proof, not more personal and unsubstantiated religious hate. We already have enough from this fraudulent admin and the left.
I respect Jason and completely support he and all of Hewish faith. I am a bona fide Zionist. If I had an attic I would proudly protect you! However, if really came down to it I know we would stand together and fight.
I've certainly tried. It seems people have a mental illness when it comes to reasoning about Jews and are prey to the bigotry of low expectations when it comes to holding radical Islamists accountable for their actions.
I’ve lost some friends since 10/7, but I’ve also gained new ones. It’s painful when the friendship spanned many years. I suppose there are simply some things we don’t know until we do.
It was addressed to all friends and family who had pestered me for months over the racist lie cash hustle called "Black Lives Matter," kicked off because of a career criminal drug addict WHO KILLED HIMSELF VIA OVERDOSE WHILE FIGHTING WITH COPS ARRESTING HIM FOR YET ANOTHER CRIME, but who were amazingly silent when it came to an American minority, Jewish Americans - who are seven times more of a minority than Black Americans - being threatened daily.
Secondly, any idiot who believes the Fakestinians are anything but a sick, diseased "society" focused on Jew Murder, led by people who do nothing but call for the death of Jews - not "peace," not "land and coexistence" - can go fuck themselves forever out of my life. That includes family members and former friends.
Thirdly, and this is from Florida Man, I don't give a shit if anyone will hide me. Because I am not hiding. These assholes come for me, they're going to get every last bullet in my arsenal before they get me. I want friends who will grab a gun and shoot.
That’s an important and worthy conversation to also have. Sometimes, in some circumstances, you do have to live to fight another day, but I agree that fighting is often necessary.
I answered, ‘Other’ on the Poll, largely because of my own experiences dealing with a few friends who have expressed what I consider to be ‘anti-Zionist’ and/or antisemitic views. Believe me, I have come to the point of considering one of the friendships dead on several occasions - and, come to think of it, that relationship is very definitely no longer a close and entirely trusting one - but we are still talking. And my hopes and prayers are that my friend will come to see that he has been deceived; that his spirit is not ‘right’, and that he will then repent of his foolishness and seek to be forgiven by G-d for any harms he may have caused. I have seen some encouraging signs in that regard of late.
To be clear, I wouldn’t hesitate to break off any friendship with someone who supports or confines October 7, or made any excuses for it in any way whatsoever. But there are many, many people that I encounter who are either deceived, or in the process of being deceived, and I generally choose to engage with such people in efforts to correct their errors and warped perspectives.
I have been doing that for many years, but much more frequently now - and it is often very challenging to remain civilly engaged with such persons.
One of the stranger ironies in this matter, is that I - a Bible-believing, Evangelical Christian - have often found that I have more love for Israel than many American Jews that I know - including one I was formerly married to.
Can't do the math on if I've cut off more people than have cut me off over my not standing for their bullshit but it's the better Way Forward.
I noticed on LinkedIn that people are gathering fellow thinkers and exposing the evil obtuse by posting pro-israel/ free the hostages content.
I've had zero inquiries to a personals ad that states my lifeinterests along with my zero tolerance for leftists, anti-zionist and the woke. Better to get it out of the way than to confront it hours and dollars into a relationship.
Had not contemplated spouses fracturing because of this but not surprised.
Very much so. As a professional have been linked in member for over 20 years. Quit recently when I discovered what an immoral scumbag the founder truly is. Undoubtedly he is a huge hamas (I call them hummus, yuck!) & hezbutthola (sorry can’t help myself) funder, Soros like.
I'm trying to structure my LinkedIn approach going forward so I don't have clients who will want me to take experimental medicines or bow down to Gaza, complicated times
I am not Jewish but I am a Zionist. Oct 7 has revealed a level of sleeveenery (Irish for craven and backstabbing) that has truly sickened me. I listened to the silence and I listened to Shriek for Palestine before the blood dried. No. Nah. Forget it. It's not me it 's them.
So much of anti-Zionism is predicated on lies and propaganda that I won't stop being friends with someone who I believe will be open to frank discussions after this war is over. How else will they process where they went wrong if we stop talking with them? But while we fight, those friendships are on hold. I say I'm busy, I say I'm tired. The truth will out, but not until the fighting has stopped.
I have a friend who helps out with the kids, drop offs etc. I know she supports a Free Palestine and goes on the rallies. And that's as far as I'm willing to dwell. I value her opinions but know politics is a minefield with her and never discuss anything political. We differed on our views in the pandemic and choice of government. I guess it's a marriage of convenience as long as I don't scratch the surface. I know she's a loose cannon and I like that aspect of her...but...am I simply being a coward in not confronting her?
I don’t think you’re being a coward. Her friendship benefits your life and presumably the reverse is true. If you are both comfortable not talking about this issue then what’s the problem? Perhaps one day your relationship will evolve to the point at which you can discuss this but you don’t have to be bff with everyone.
The problem with dancing on glass is eventually it will cut you, sometimes mortally.
As stated above, you do you. Reality is that is no friendship, sounds like a bully acquaintance who has tantrums when not getting her (?) way. Your choice of course, life is too short for me to waste time on self-centered bullshit. You are likely a good person I sense, ask yourself; is your friend. Would he/she be there for you when the chips are down. That is my litmus test of true and abiding friendship- which is love in every regard.
"My rule of thumb is this: if you want to be my friend now, I don’t want to think twice if you’ll hide me in your attic if the shit ever really hits the fan."
This says it all.
Yeah - I have to say I am having a problem at this point with “who would hide me in their attics.” Would the Gay community ever go ‘back in the closet?’ I think they’d fight like hell to live their lives. So if things get bad, I’m not headed to anyone’s attic. I want the equivalent of a few regional ‘Warsaw ghettos’ and if I go down, it’s not being pulled out of some attic like a scared raccoon, but standing up for me and the Jewish civilization.
Very good advice. I too have a hard time being close to anyone who supports what happened on October 7 or makes excuses for it. That really is the proverbial “bridge too far” for me. You’re right though, I do not like to contemplate cutting people out of my life who were important to me, but on that issue, it’s they who made the choice. if they know, I’m very pro Israel and they’re not they should avoid the topic with me, but if they constantly are trying to debate with me, I said to myself, it’s not worth it. Being friends with someone who does not support Israel’s right to exist it is not the same as it say you are a Yankees fan and your friend is a Red Sox fan. You can laugh over the matter, but this is an existential crisis for the Jewish people.
Thank you Joel. You’re definitely not alone. I’ve received about 10 variations of this question when soliciting questions for this ‘Dear Golda’ column. The ones with couples who have kids together are the most sad, but also longstanding business partnerships that are now destroyed and obviously many friendships. I wouldn’t judge anyone for trying to maintain dialogue, but I’m certainly more in your camp with how I view it.
I’m on the couples camp that you mentioned, and it’s been painful, disorienting, without hyperbole — downright debilitating. And an extremely solitary experience. I wish there was a support group m.
Hey Paula, you’re not alone, I’m glad you found Maccabee Nation. I hope you can get through to the other side and find peace and happiness. You will, keep going!
I'm not even Jewish and I would not be friends with someone who is an anti-Zionist. And I didn't even know what Zionism meant until after 10/7.
same. my partner has issues with Zionism because he doesn’t understand it. i am maintaining open dialogue with him about it because he is willing to learn more. he recently told me that he doesn’t like Zionism because it often leads to “reactionary politics”. He is equating the current government of Israel to Zionism. i don’t know how else to explain it to him.
Lauren, try showing him the attacks happening against Jews all around the world right now. Israel is a place Jews are supposed to be safe, or at least to have the ability to defend themselves in our indigenous homeland.
If he doesn’t agree that the world is unsafe for Jews, ask him to strap on a skullcap and Megan David necklace and walk around any major city in America, Canada, or Western Europe. it will be a formative experience. Be prepared to endure verbal and physical assault, for the crime of being a Jew in the West.
I’ll just add Northern Europe to that geography (or I have no idea about other parts of Scandinavia/northern Europe but for Denmark it certainly applies
Zionism just means that the Jewish state has a right to exist. What leads to "reactionary politics" is anti-Zionism.
I know, I don’t know why he cannot see it. Thankfully, he also hates Hamas and thinks the protesters are ignorant, but I think he just doesn’t understand how dangerous they are.
I think many people are afraid to face the reality of it.
Nailed it. They are hoping to eaten last.
yeah, that’s been my thought all along…
You really need to just say it. “Jew hatred” so much more visceral than the overly intellectual anti semitism anti Zionism it really is just garden variety Jew hatred let’s face it.
Example?
Huh???. Agree with Sunset Thunder.
What on earth is Evangelicusm?
As a born and raised proud Catholic I take person umbrage with your ignorant claim all?)
Please clarify and provide proof, not more personal and unsubstantiated religious hate. We already have enough from this fraudulent admin and the left.
I respect Jason and completely support he and all of Hewish faith. I am a bona fide Zionist. If I had an attic I would proudly protect you! However, if really came down to it I know we would stand together and fight.
Peace 🕊️
Start conversations about other areas of conflict where Islamic terrorists are slaughtering each other and other faiths with zero regard.
Ask your friend if Hamas has ever suggested a 2-state solution is wanted?
Ask them what "from the river to the sea" means?
Ask this person to name any Islamic democracy?
Ask them if Islam is right about gays or women?
Ask them to show you any Islamic cleric calling for violence of Islamic terrorists to end?
I've certainly tried. It seems people have a mental illness when it comes to reasoning about Jews and are prey to the bigotry of low expectations when it comes to holding radical Islamists accountable for their actions.
Peer pressure.
I’ve lost some friends since 10/7, but I’ve also gained new ones. It’s painful when the friendship spanned many years. I suppose there are simply some things we don’t know until we do.
So? Your social life comes to a bit of a bottleneck. You really didn’t need those people. You don’t need them.
Firstly, I wrote and posted this on 7 November 2023 and reposted it on 4 May 2024: https://christophermessina.substack.com/p/6-months-later-american-liberal-silence?r=erlb4
It was addressed to all friends and family who had pestered me for months over the racist lie cash hustle called "Black Lives Matter," kicked off because of a career criminal drug addict WHO KILLED HIMSELF VIA OVERDOSE WHILE FIGHTING WITH COPS ARRESTING HIM FOR YET ANOTHER CRIME, but who were amazingly silent when it came to an American minority, Jewish Americans - who are seven times more of a minority than Black Americans - being threatened daily.
Secondly, any idiot who believes the Fakestinians are anything but a sick, diseased "society" focused on Jew Murder, led by people who do nothing but call for the death of Jews - not "peace," not "land and coexistence" - can go fuck themselves forever out of my life. That includes family members and former friends.
Thirdly, and this is from Florida Man, I don't give a shit if anyone will hide me. Because I am not hiding. These assholes come for me, they're going to get every last bullet in my arsenal before they get me. I want friends who will grab a gun and shoot.
Amen. F&$k that “would this person hide me” BS.
The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, FYI
Yes, but I am not "hiding," am I, if I am live-firing at evil scum who are coming to murder me, am I?
That’s an important and worthy conversation to also have. Sometimes, in some circumstances, you do have to live to fight another day, but I agree that fighting is often necessary.
I answered, ‘Other’ on the Poll, largely because of my own experiences dealing with a few friends who have expressed what I consider to be ‘anti-Zionist’ and/or antisemitic views. Believe me, I have come to the point of considering one of the friendships dead on several occasions - and, come to think of it, that relationship is very definitely no longer a close and entirely trusting one - but we are still talking. And my hopes and prayers are that my friend will come to see that he has been deceived; that his spirit is not ‘right’, and that he will then repent of his foolishness and seek to be forgiven by G-d for any harms he may have caused. I have seen some encouraging signs in that regard of late.
To be clear, I wouldn’t hesitate to break off any friendship with someone who supports or confines October 7, or made any excuses for it in any way whatsoever. But there are many, many people that I encounter who are either deceived, or in the process of being deceived, and I generally choose to engage with such people in efforts to correct their errors and warped perspectives.
I have been doing that for many years, but much more frequently now - and it is often very challenging to remain civilly engaged with such persons.
One of the stranger ironies in this matter, is that I - a Bible-believing, Evangelical Christian - have often found that I have more love for Israel than many American Jews that I know - including one I was formerly married to.
Can't do the math on if I've cut off more people than have cut me off over my not standing for their bullshit but it's the better Way Forward.
I noticed on LinkedIn that people are gathering fellow thinkers and exposing the evil obtuse by posting pro-israel/ free the hostages content.
I've had zero inquiries to a personals ad that states my lifeinterests along with my zero tolerance for leftists, anti-zionist and the woke. Better to get it out of the way than to confront it hours and dollars into a relationship.
Had not contemplated spouses fracturing because of this but not surprised.
Very much so. As a professional have been linked in member for over 20 years. Quit recently when I discovered what an immoral scumbag the founder truly is. Undoubtedly he is a huge hamas (I call them hummus, yuck!) & hezbutthola (sorry can’t help myself) funder, Soros like.
Linked in is linked out forever for me.
I use phallustinians
Being that they are the biggest dicks
I'm trying to structure my LinkedIn approach going forward so I don't have clients who will want me to take experimental medicines or bow down to Gaza, complicated times
I am not Jewish but I am a Zionist. Oct 7 has revealed a level of sleeveenery (Irish for craven and backstabbing) that has truly sickened me. I listened to the silence and I listened to Shriek for Palestine before the blood dried. No. Nah. Forget it. It's not me it 's them.
People use the word friend very easily now, but to me it's a relationship that requires a deep mutual trust.
It's impossible to be friend with anyone who expects you to disavow your own community.
You mentioned the exact litmus test I use. Will this person hide me in the attic? It says everything.
So much of anti-Zionism is predicated on lies and propaganda that I won't stop being friends with someone who I believe will be open to frank discussions after this war is over. How else will they process where they went wrong if we stop talking with them? But while we fight, those friendships are on hold. I say I'm busy, I say I'm tired. The truth will out, but not until the fighting has stopped.
I have a friend who helps out with the kids, drop offs etc. I know she supports a Free Palestine and goes on the rallies. And that's as far as I'm willing to dwell. I value her opinions but know politics is a minefield with her and never discuss anything political. We differed on our views in the pandemic and choice of government. I guess it's a marriage of convenience as long as I don't scratch the surface. I know she's a loose cannon and I like that aspect of her...but...am I simply being a coward in not confronting her?
You do you, but I’m not letting someone who casts googley eyes at hamas anywhere near my family.
I don’t think you’re being a coward. Her friendship benefits your life and presumably the reverse is true. If you are both comfortable not talking about this issue then what’s the problem? Perhaps one day your relationship will evolve to the point at which you can discuss this but you don’t have to be bff with everyone.
The problem with dancing on glass is eventually it will cut you, sometimes mortally.
As stated above, you do you. Reality is that is no friendship, sounds like a bully acquaintance who has tantrums when not getting her (?) way. Your choice of course, life is too short for me to waste time on self-centered bullshit. You are likely a good person I sense, ask yourself; is your friend. Would he/she be there for you when the chips are down. That is my litmus test of true and abiding friendship- which is love in every regard.
Good luck, stay true to self - always!
Sometimes they just need time.
I’m not Jewish but have absolutely no problem with Zionism. In fact, I rather admire it